[ADVICE] Can they make us pay this???

[Jennifer13]

In NSW it's standard to pay water usage, or excess water usage, but not rates. That I think is across the board for all house rentals (unless your landlord specifically removes it or forgets, like ours often does - we rent privately), because once your lease has expired you are still bound by normal rental rules, just don't need to give (or get) the same notice to move out.

I should add, I've always been under the impression that the landlord must pay the bill and you merely reimburse the usage amount the next time you pay rent. The bill they forward to you is not for you to pay - you pay the landlord who's responsible for the bill (hence the reason it's in their name). So the 14 days thing doesn't make sense.

The only exception we've had to paying water usage is when there was a broken outside tap on our property that we did not know about (buried in the garden out the front and amongst all the bushes - we didn't even know it was there!). It ran constantly for months without our knowledge so we refused to pay the excess water bill because the issue was property maintenance. Technically, we could have still been made to pay, but we were prepared to fight and they let it go since we were moving out.

[LimeSlice]

Wow, I wish we didn't have to pay for water!! In Melbourne you have to pay for everything! When we signed our lease the agent told us it would be a good idea to take out renters insurance. She said because if a burglar breaks into the house WE would have to pay to fix the window!!!

Who on earth do you think should pay for it?

[Jennifer13]

In NSW the landlord would fix damage to the house itself. Not your possessions, but definitely the house (it would be claimable on their house insurance as far as I know, if they wanted to put in a claim). Not that I've ever been broken into, but I've never had to pay for any damage that wasn't caused by us.

[LimeSlice]

I can't imagine ever expecting the landlord to fix something like a broken window. They shouldn't pay for it it I smashed it with a cricket ball, why would I expect them to pay for it after someone breaks into the house?
Wow. I am realyl quite stunned that so many people think they shouldn't have to pay for their own lives.

ForShelby - I hope you can get a clear answer from your real estate agent! If it wasn't practice for you to pay the bill but now is, they should give you some sort of notice.

[Traveller]

As a landlord, if someone broke into my house and burgled my tenants I would expect the damage to the house to come off my landlord's buildings insurance. It seems quite odd that a broken window through burglary would be the tenant's responsibility.

Anyway WRT the water bill, I hope you get it sorted out soon. If you are going to be responsible for the water bill from now on then I would suggest it would be reasonable for you to ask your landlord to install some water saving devices.

[Just Me]

In Queensland it has to be listed in the lease agreement that the tenant will pay the water bill. That is one of the conditions of the RTA. If it is not listed in the lease agreement, then you don't have to pay. Other states have different rules, but that is the rule for Qld.

Did you check out that link I sent through earlier in the thread? It had all your rights and obligations about water billing in Queensland and they were explained thoroughly.

[Erin_25]

Off topic but in regards to the window I would think that is what you have home insurance for "the landlord" that is. The house is to be up kept and as it was when you move in so I would think they would fix it with insurance. But if something of yours gets taken that is why you should always have your own contents insurance.

I agree that we have to be responsible for our own lives and pay your bills etc. But if you haven't had to pay something before it would come as a shock & water hasn't always been something that has been paid. When we first rented it was excess only & we never went over so we never paid it. I guess that's one reason some people choose to rent, they don't have to pay the council rates, water rates & maintenance either. So I can understand your questioning this.

[forshelby]

ok. So to recap.. (lol) there is nothing on our lease to state we're responsible for paying water usage (NOT rates). There are no water saving fittings installed. So, even if they were to decide we have to pay for our water usage, then they need to a)install water saving devices, or b)come up with a reasonable agreement of how much they will pay.

How the heck do you come up with a 'reasonable amount' though when you've never paid for this particular utility and have no real idea of what it should cost though?! ARgh.

And i still haven't heard from my lazy R.E agent. She sucks the big one. I'll give her until Monday (public holiday tomorrow).

[LimeSlice]

You should pay all the usage costs - you are using the water.

[Boo Boo]

When we rented out our house, I phoned the water company, they split the bill - the water usage went to the tenants and the sewage, etc costs went to the real estate who paid these on our behalf out of our rent. In regards, to a burglar braking the window, this happened to us, we have landlords insurance and it was fixed up by us through our insurance. I certainly wouldn't expect a tenant to fix a broken window, same as if the toilet goes wrong the landlord fixes it, etc.
In regards to water, I class it the same as electricity, gas, etc, it is an expense that needs to be budgeted for and if bills aren't received for it then you should be querying why not.

[Just Me]

You should pay all the usage costs - you are using the water.

In Qld, unless stated otherwise, water usage fees should be included as part of the rent. This is what the law states and the landlord should have been aware of this when deciding to have an investment property in Qld. The law can be changed but at the moment, this is how it stands so the OP is not responsible for water costs.


Forshelby, the RTA says this about a reasonable amount of water ...

* Reasonable amount of water: The lessor and the tenant should agree upon what is a reasonable amount at the start of the tenancy and include the amount as a
special term in the tenancy agreement. The tenant is liable for any consumption above the agreed amount.

Basically, you would have to take into account that the owner has not fitted water saving devices (which is probably why the water usage is so high) so water consumption will be higher. Honestly, it would cost him less in the long run to just install the water saving devices which is why I think the law is set up that way ... to encourage landlords to install them. It is the landlord's responsibility too as it is a capital assest.

[LimeSlice]

In Qld, unless stated otherwise, water usage fees should be included as part of the rent. This is what the law states and the landlord should have been aware of this when deciding to have an investment property in Qld. The law can be changed but at the moment, this is how it stands so the OP is not responsible for water costs.

Basically, you would have to take into account that the owner has not fitted water saving devices (which is probably why the water usage is so high) so water consumption will be higher. Honestly, it would cost him less in the long run to just install the water saving devices which is why I think the law is set up that way ... to encourage landlords to install them. It is the landlord's responsibility too as it is a capital assest.

She WASN'T, she now WILL be responsible for paying water.
ForShelby asked how to work out what a reasonable amount was, which is what I was answering. The answer is she should be paying for ALL her water usage costs as SHE is using them. Just as nobody else pays electricity or gas bills for her. It is called paying for your own life, something adults need to do.

When we rented without water saving shower heads etc, we bought our own. They cost next to nothing, I can install them and remove them, and when we move out, we simply replace the old showers heads when we leave.
You don't need to wait for the landlord to do all these things, do them yourself!

[Just Me]

When we rented out our house, I phoned the water company, they split the bill - the water usage went to the tenants and the sewage, etc costs went to the real estate who paid these on our behalf out of our rent. In regards, to a burglar braking the window, this happened to us, we have landlords insurance and it was fixed up by us through our insurance. I certainly wouldn't expect a tenant to fix a broken window, same as if the toilet goes wrong the landlord fixes it, etc.
In regards to water, I class it the same as electricity, gas, etc, it is an expense that needs to be budgeted for and if bills aren't received for it then you should be querying why not.

WRT the broken window, tenants cannot get property insurance on the house they are renting where landlords can. Tenants are only able to obtain contents insurance. That is why landlords are responsible for a broken window, even in a robbery. I think there may be some negotiation about who pays the excess based on the circumstances, but generally, the landlord's insurance is able to cover the broken window.

[Just Me]

She WASN'T, she now WILL be responsible for paying water.
ForShelby asked how to work out what a reasonable amount was, which is what I was answering. The answer is she should be paying for ALL her water usage costs as SHE is using them. Just as nobody else pays electricity or gas bills for her. It is called paying for your own life, something adults need to do.

When we rented without water saving shower heads etc, we bought our own. They cost next to nothing, I can install them and remove them, and when we move out, we simply replace the old showers heads when we leave.
You don't need to wait for the landlord to do all these things, do them yourself!

Until there is a formal agreement, under law she is still not obligated to pay for water seperately. It is already paid for ... in the cost of rent. She is paying for her own life. She pays rent.

The law is there for a reason - to protect both parties. Both parties are obligated to know what the law says when they sign an agreement. The landlord is not getting a bum deal because she doesn't pay for water. The landlord should have been aware of the law - it is not hidden, it is really quite accessable. If the landlord wants her to start paying water, fair enough, but he needs to follow the law. The landlord can purchase water saving devices and install them and it is tax deductable. There is also more to making a house water efficient than just installing low flow shower heads.

I think understanding the law and how it works to protect the rights of everyone is part of being an adult as well. Forshelby signed a contract and that contract listed her rights and obligations. She is entitled to refuse to pay a water bill that she is not contractually obligated to pay. That's what the law does. It makes everyone's jobs and roles clear so that it is not really an issue of personal beliefs about right and wrong. It is about what the law says. The law was there for everyone to see when the contract was signed so it is fair. If the landlord was concerned about water costs, it was his job to account for that in rental costs unless he wanted to do the things he needed to do, by law, to have the tenants pay for water separately.

[Rouge]

Water is covered in rent? Since when? (Not being rude... just trying to understand this...) Because in VIC and NSW this isn't the case. Rent is to cover the property not utilities unless stated in the lease. If it isn't stated in the lease (and yes I have seen some leases with utilities covered - although the rent is nearly double what you would normally pay) then you are obligated to pay for it. In VIC the water bill doesn't get sent to the property owner but the occupant. Which in this case is the renter.

[forshelby]

Just me - THANKYOU. You saved me a lot of typing there.

Limeslice - I am paying for my own life, like an adult. I don't think you're getting my point but that's ok with me! It's hard when the laws differ state to state. Our rent is 420 p.w. Water was always included in this amt, which is why it's so high.

Why are we talking about break and enters anyway? I'm confuzzled.

[forshelby]

Rouge - Yes. In QLD, water is only paid for by the tenant if the lease states this, as well as some other criteria having to be met re water efficiency. Just me explained it better than I can. It's confusing, I know!

[Boo Boo]

WRT the broken window, tenants cannot get property insurance on the house they are renting where landlords can. Tenants are only able to obtain contents insurance. That is why landlords are responsible for a broken window, even in a robbery. I think there may be some negotiation about who pays the excess based on the circumstances, but generally, the landlord's insurance is able to cover the broken window.

I know, I was speaking as a landlord myself, we were the landlords renting out our house and we had landlord insurance.